I like to bring it up here because I feel it is important for me to say my part in my own thoughts from the bottom of my heart.

Here is the quote that someone wrote. It doesn't matter who but it's her words to be expressed from her own true inner soul. I feel that I could help her to understand what I am trying to say which is the truth. I'm not trying to offend you in a way. I believe it is the true fact that needs to be share with other people who don't realize it .



First of all, it's the attitudes of society that makes her disabled. Teacher is rude and needs to be fired because he has no right to pinpoint to any Disabled students without their permission. Other way around that in my own Deaf eyes, you are disabled for wearing Hearing devices to depend on it while Deaf person with no hearing devices that doesn't depend on it. The reason is Deaf person with no devices already has their own adaptation in their own natural abilities ways that doesn't need to depend on hearing's ways. You got doubled disabled for not being able to be yourself in both ways from mainstream school. That is a huge conflict to struggle between Hearing and Deaf issues in public school as usual. Of course, Deaf children will be left out in hearing classroom so she is disabled as well. Therefore, she won't be disabled in Deaf School because they provide our needs to meet our Educational standards that should be done from the past but hearing oral
educators didn't do this! That's how we become more disabled.

1. No ASL in the classroom which helps Deaf people to see the true expression of body language that is important for all of us Deafies. It's not a great idea to depend on interpreters or hearing devices that has no emotional tones, body language, or true expression all day in the classrooms. Also, I can see she has no interpreter. That is disability for the teacher of the Deaf who have a lack of understanding in ASL skills. They should be fluent in ASL skills. Anyway, so therefore you are disabled for not having ASL in the classrooms.

2. Teacher is correct however most teachers force Deaf children to wear hearing devices. This is a double disability for most of us who couldn't understand and hear the spoken language. I find this is really outrageous for us by having double standards without ASL. That is a real disability for all of us. Hearing people have created more conflicting issues between our Deaf Education and rules of Oral only. It doesn't make any sense for them to say we are disabled because they make us to be disabled by their own intention and by their attitudes as usual. It s a real absurd situation.

3. You think you can hear with your hearing devices with FM that helps you to hear 100 percent. You are expecting yourself to depend on FM. I find this odd/ strange for her to be saying I am not disabled. That is a disability.

4.. Deaf school is a good choice that provides all Deaf children 's needs to meet their Deaf education not leave them behind without a Child 's Education.

They do provide ASL which is our first priorty to have from day one. That is not disability.

Of course people are disabled since they wear hearing devices that demand them to depend on many things that doesn't help them to adapt to their own life and natural abilities by being Deaf. That is disability. While you adapt with your own natural abilities this does not make you disabled because you can do things in different ways. This means you don't have to follow hearing 's way which are not making your life easier but are making you disabled.

That teacher gave the mixed messages is what makes trouble for everyone. If a teacher of deaf students does not sign then I say "Big Duh." I would that the school would know enough to put her in a class where the teacher does sign or at least uses as much visual as possible.

The whole thing is they have an attitude that hearing is superior to deaf. That is what bugs me all along.

So therefore, this person doesn't have to say apologize or owes anything to her teacher.

Many thanks!

Sweetmind

Well...Still both's fault..
Jenny is mainstreamed Knowing she needs all support...

The teacher should not mentioned that Jenny is disabled.. Whatmore Jenny should not argue..

Jenny has been trained in the mainstreamed... Teacher told the teaching interns that Jenny is disabled..
Then Jenny started arguing... Her big mistake is telling him that she can do without any supports and she will get by ASL and PSE... she forgot that she can use ASL and PSE outside school.and she should know better than to argue with teacher..Look what happened....Teacher showed her proof that she cannot do without any supports.. by making sure thr front row was full and FM was not allowed to be used in the class...She was stuck without supports because she was training by audism teachers...
Teacher did created cruel joke on Jenny...
Jenny should had of stopping and think what will she do without all supports in school..
Can you imagine if we ask teacher to use ASL and PSE in the class without his voice and what will he do...no voice interpreter therefore he wont be able to teach hearing students with ASL and PSE...

Teacher and Jenny should not argue in front of teaching interns.. they should discuss in the principal's office...

BOTH TEACHER AND JENNY ARE WRONG...

Sweetmind,

Having no support is not a good thing. *frown* All students need support in different areas. However, it is often assumed by those giving help that the students all learn in the same way. Which is a false idea. D/deaf students as visual learners learn in a different way than do H/hearing students.

That the teacher brought the other teachers over to point out that the student is "disabled" is false, a violation of the students privacy, and a violation of ethics. Pah!

Correct, "I am not disabled, I am Deaf." **5**

The teacher has a narrow, simplistic, and totally uneducated view of what a "disability" is. The teacher has a disability based on the actions and views described.

Needing supports is not a sign of a disability. All students need the support of the educaqtional system as well as that of the teachers.

"Do I appologize?" NO! You have not done anything wrong.

True, the attitudes of society determine who and/or what is a "disability". In this sense, what is a "disability" is a guess.

A D/deaf person without a device is adapting in a natural way that shows their intelligence.

Correct, she will not be disabled in a Deaf school, so this shows that what is a "disability" is often socially determined. Not having ASL in the classroom is an example of this.

D/deaf students are obviously visual learners. H/hearing students are visual learners as well. Hence, textbooks, libraries, etc...

A hearing device only amplifies the sounds. It does not clarify them nor help in the understanding of them.

Having ASL from day one is a way of the students and teachers communicating with each other. Which is a benefit to both.

Being able to adapt to the circumstances in life shows intelligence.

Not only did the teacher give mixed messages, but it seems that the teacher is on a power-trip.

I don't think this lady is wrong because the teacher is the one who did a very wrong thing by informing the intern Teacher who doesn't even know who these disabled students are yet. The teacher should shut his/her mouth because the Intern teacher needs to find out for her/himself first if there is something different about a student for a change. Another thing that would be a good thing for her to do is to stand up for being Deaf using ASL. However she doesn't realized that she is disabled for not having ASL in the hearing classroom as well.

I don't agree with a teacher because of what CSN says " it seems that the teacher is on a power-trip." That's exactly right. The reason why I said "You think you can hear with your hearing devices with FM that helps you to hear 100 percent. You are expecting yourself to depend on FM I find this odd/ strange for her to be saying I am not disabled. That is a disability." because there is no way for Deaf/HOH to hear everything with FM or to understand everything that the teachers are saying while they have their hearing devices. That is a disability. It's a struggle to understand everything in the classroom without seeing their faces or getting feedback that you like to participate and discuss with any students. It doesn't make any sense because it's very important to have the feedback that shows you are participating in the class. That will count for our grades and will help students remember the answers. That is how you learn. Deaf/Hoh will definitely miss out on what's going on in the classrooms as far as I know the truth. This is for fact that she has a doubled disability for not having ASL or having FM, AND that she won't hear everything and will miss a lot more than people realize. It doesn't make any sense to me anymore after all she is confused and denied herself.. She'll find out more later when she will be more mature to understand it better.

Anyway, she should have walked out of the classroom so that she could report this to School Principal first and stand up for herself which is a good thing. She did not give full details to make it clear that she didn't have a good debate about the disability itself. However, I do really think she is very confused herself about the term of disability and that she doesn't realize that through h/Hearing people's eyes we Deaf People are not allowed to have our Deaf beings and ASL from day one because of their own prejudice.

So anyway, I find this is really interesting because of those ignorant Deaf and Audism people with audist attitude. Here is the example:

Hearing person can hear the sounds and oral speaking (which are both non-languages) by the voices but do they understand what it means without seeing it in their own eyes? I DONT think so.

Same with a Deaf person! Deaf and Hearing babies/children can or cannot or hear the sounds and spoken language or lip movement use ASL to understand. My question is - Do they understand what it means when they visualize the object in their own eyes? YES! I THINK so, Both Deaf and Hearing babies/children can understand because of ASL. Therefore, that should come first and come before oral speaking. This is progress toward Deaf children's intellectual skills and social skills that they would gain more than ever before.

Therefore, we Deafies or Hearies won't go further to learn more in our education without our visualization which is our EYES. This is also in books about ASL in Mainstream or Deaf school as for Deaf Blind or Usher Syndrome. They will need to depend on braille as for reading and ASL as Tactile Sign Language for communicating with a Deaf interpreter as the third party. It has nothing to do with our Deaf ears for us to learn in hearing classrooms without ASL. That is my biggest pet peeve about DEAFISM AND AUDISM people with audist attitude who do not think of real communication that works for Deafies. People with audist attitude don't have any respect for Deaf ASLan babies/children who need more exposure to ASL for their future's sake. It is always overlapping that ASL works for all of us as I feel there is no excuses for them to ignore ASL in our classrooms.. So be it!

No wonder Deafism and Audism people with their audist attitude have failed many people. This would include Deaf and Hearing children in our education system. Especially Deaf students for so many years.

That's Deaf children's rightful to learn with ASL along.

Have a wonderful day!

SweetMind

I am a hearing person, and an education student at a major university. I think the teacher in this case was insensitive, but the interns who are going to be in the class do need to know of any disabilities or need for supports if they are to be effective in the classroom. An intern is there, usually full-time, for an entire semester. To withhold information about a student who needs supports would be wrong. However, the correct thing for the teacher to do would have been to privately discuss any special needs, supports, accommodations with the interns, rather than what he did.

Please try to remember that, in order to receive supports in a public school, you must have an IEP and you must be "labeled" with a disability. Just as a person with a vision impairment or a physical impairment or any other disability is indeed labeled with his or her disability, so, too, is a person with a hearing impairment or deafness.

There is no shame in any disability - in my belief system, God made each of us individual and special and with wonderful strengths -and, yes, needs. you should be proud to be who you are - for too long, any disability has been looked on as something to be ashamed of. Some of the most wonderful people I know have "disabilities" - they have nothing to be ashamed of - nor do you.

Please also try to remember that the deaf community is very strong and tight, and often makes those of us who are not part of it feel like we are not welcome.

I would just suggest that, rather than be defensive and divisive, you take a moment to try and understand that we do not live in your world, so we WILL make mistakes - help us to understand, rather than pushing us away.

I keep seeing references to Audism people and Audist - "No wonder Deafism and Audism people with their audist attitude have failed many people."

What does this mean? Are you referring to AuTism - as in Austism Spectrum Disorder - but misspelling it? Or does this word mean something that I am ignorant of?

Donapuf,

"Audism" is distinct from "Autism" in that "audism" is based upon the unsubstiantiated attitude or belief that hearing/speaking are superior to deaf and signing. This is mostly a prejudice which sees D/deaf as inferior. "Autism" however is a physical and neurological condition. There is still much more to learn about autism in terms of its origins and how it affects the person than what we know now.

Going back to the situation in the beginning, depending on the degree of autism that a student has an intern does not necessarily have to know. If the student's autism interferes - or has the potential to interfere with - the education in a major manner, then the intern would be better off knowing about it. One thing to consider is that not every teacher is going to view a specific student as "disabled". Even if the student has been labled as such by the school system not every teacher is going to treat that student in that manner. If the teacher is from a family where (s)he has seen this in their family and has seen how minimally it affects the education then they may be less willing to inform the intern. If the student's situation has a greater potential to interfere with their education then the intern may be able to pick up on this based on what they have learned. Also, by reading the student's file I would hope that the certified assessments which have been used as part of an assessment are listed. The intern may be familiar with these and/or ask questions about them. Once again, depending on the level and/or degree of the autism the teacher may only show the student part of the file. Also, I would hope that more than just assessments are used to arrive at the label "autistic". Such things as observations, reports from family, age-appropriate behavior, etc... are all clues to use.

Thank you for letting me know who you are. This is what I mean that I'd rather have a teacher find out first before intern teacher (still in training) finds out even with their own audist attitude. Also, many books are full of theories but that doesn't mean they have the right answer about being deaf. Thanks! Also, It's confidential and should stay in the meeting. That way no one can tell anybody that a student has a disability in front of anyone. It seems that people are not being themselves when they approach any disabled people that are different from themselves or after they knew the person had a disability. I feel it's not right about any of these circumstances. I feel that any intern teacher should figure it out themselves after seeing how it goes in the classroom for those students. If they recognized there is something different that is how you learn by your own eyes not by someone else's bias. Some of them are prejudicial and treat who they think are "disabled" like a second class citizen It is very offensive toward Deaf student or anybody else. I'm concerned to have the avoidance of making them feel low self esteem when they are treated badly. Any labels should not be in the public at all; I think it's every student should have equal rights.



What makes you think I don't know anything about IEP? It's not always the answer from the IEP that Deaf students needs to have this or that. Look at many Deaf school or Deaf mainstream with no ASL lately. Our Deaf education is very bad in both side of Deaf/Mainstream school in many ways. Many students with device are not receiving an equal education to that of a hearing student. Also, too many parents are emphasizing their own D/deaf children to wear hearing devices. Many students turn it off during the school hour while Teacher forces them to wear it. This is what it bothers me all along. It already shows the evidence that hearing devices have failed them in the classroom in many ways and leaves them far behind in understanding the concept of English written for Deaf students. I have my rights to defend Deaf children's right when many people with audist attitudes have no common sense at all. How selfish; it has been going on and on since AGBell took over Deaf languages and Deaf community all along.. THEY FAILED US that is ENOUGH of it. IT IS TIME TO STOP NOW and to have a change for a better to have ASL Education. So be it! This is a real terrible waste our Deaf minds for nothing because of damn AUDISM rules.

Deaf will be always deaf, and people need to face this fact because there's no such thing about miracle or cure at all. No body can fix it at all that and that needs to be kept n mind. It's totally different from other artificial body parts.

I m fed up with no simulations by hearing and orally speaking. NO human contact or equal communication when it should be a two way street but it does not happen. This is because we prefer to use ASL and that helps deafs to express their true feelings, use their own creative thinkings, visual eyes contact. have more confidence in themselves, and much more..



Tell me about it since I have been walking the walk all my life. I am very aware of whats going on in Deaf community in many ways. Of course I am proud of who I am, however I got no freedom of speech with responsibility as far as I know too much about AUDISM/MEDICAL. Therefore, there is too much prejudice / discrimination/ oppression that is still against us today. It was easy talk for you because you have no idea what the Deaf community, Deaf people with a positive attitude put up with and deal with in our battles. Some of them are burned out but they did not giving it up for our Deaf children's ASL education which is their right for so many years. Thanks!

ALSO, I have been here about ten years that I did educate many with good and positive reinforcement about ASL with my own time, energy, and money. This DeafNotes is my second home and gives me a chance to speak it freely. It also helps in educating them to understand many issues that relates to our being a natural deaf that had destroyed me inside of being deaf for so many years.In the past years,I love some hearing people with a very positive attitude and desire to learn from us. Some people with a very nasty audist attitude who pushed them away because they are very supportive with ASL attitude while I was trying to educate in a very honest statement. They were a cool people that I discussed with, however it's very hard on them after all I speak out the truth that can be hurtful to anybody who needs to face it.I don't want to deal with people who are too much self centered and think they know more than me as being deaf from birth while they are hearing. Scoffs!. I'm speaking of a very general true experience that Deafies and I went through. That is not about you because you are or think of a hearing person here (if you are) to discuss with me as a ex hoh, deaf oralist, and now Deaf person.




Of course deaf community is very strong and tight. That is healthy because we have a real natural communication like a natural conversation without any struggle to understand. Believe it or not,I often feel that we are not welcome in hearing world. After all there is no stimulation like feedback to us to keep the conversation going like Deaf people's conversation. So you are lucky that you can hear and are capable of signing. We are doing the best to use our oral speaking that is pain in the neck for most of us.. We use our own natural languages that includes body language, gesture, hands, visualization with our eyes to help with reception. That is our full of language that we get and learn from it..



I could not pretend that I was not upset or furious over something that you said to me. I have never been able to express my true feelings and they have been complex for many years. They taught us to be passive and not say anything about what we wanted to or stand up for our rights in the past. You need to open your eyes and listen to any Deaf individuals who tried to tell you the truth in a very positive way. Look at these people who think BTE with or without magnet should be installed in all Deaf children. I DON'T AGREE WITH THAT. AGBell's audist attitude had many people deny our being deaf all along because they want to get rid of our being deaf and Deaf langauge. This makes me so furious because I MISSED OUT a lot of education if you don't mind.

I don't want to deal with people who are self centered too much and think they know more than me as being deaf from birth while they are hearing. Scoffs!. I'm speaking of a very general true experience that Deafies and I went through. This is not about you because you are or think of a hearing person here (if you are) to discuss with me as a ex hoh, deaf oralist, and now Deaf person.

I cannot sugar-coat my coated comments because it woud not be a full truth of emotion how I expressed that helps me to heal it. I did this for myself and helping other to understand where I am coming from. The reason is that I was born deaf with no sounds to be heard. That is not the same as original hearing that anybody can restore that misleads people into the wrong idea for us. That is a lie after all people listen to the Medical professional or AGB rules; these have not been stopped yet. I am sure you have read many comments that I have stated in some sites that doesn't change my mind.. I feel it's ENOUGH IS ENOUGH of being mislead about Deaf children with ASL. It's still a slow process to change the attitude and it makes me wonder why do we have to wait another 20 years as a delay for Deaf children's education when they do not hear with or without devices if you mind. I m fed up their excuses and damage toward Deaf children s mental health all along. This has has NOT stopped yet. NO one has the right to invade any Deaf children's boundaries about by being deaf.

I have lived more than 50 years. There's still much frustration and oppression going on in our Deaf community. Someone is trying to change and wipe this out, and that has failed. Of course Deaf community is very strong to hold our fort however it's very unfortunate that many deafies/oralists with audist attitudes do not realize that they are hurting our Deaf children's future and our Deaf community in this society. They did not have the knowledge to understand many issues about Deaf culture, Deaf Arts, Deaf History, and many more that they are not educated. This is how it hurts toward Deaf people and our Deaf community all along. THIS term of AUDISM NEEDS TO GET OUT OF THE DEAF COMMUNITY. PERIOD! We do not hear many spoken languages with devices if you have to know that.

Thank you.

Deaf SweetMind

Donapuf,

I must be honest to say about your comment in there was rather an insult to me and it might also be an insult to Deaf community. Let me tell you, my old friend put the sticker at the back of her car saying "I AM DEAF" and she drew excellent drawing picture of a man with two fingers sticking each ears. Guess what? Hearing people HOOTED behind her wheel but she was driving didn't EVEN know what's going on until her cousin came to join with her in her car, her cousin is hearing,okay? Everytime when the jerk people hooted behind again and again, her cousin was so annoy and felt insulted and told my friend everything of what happened. My friend get pissed off! She only wants to give the information to the people because she didn't want them to complain to her to move over especially the ambulance or police on the road, that's her point of information, it now become an insult at the end!

How can you say that you want to put a sticker on us? The people out there simply DON'T care and putting insult behind our back, NO THANK YOU! I can properly call all the disabled people and tell them that you are partly mad. Sorry for speaking straight.. this how we felt.

This was the most insult I have ever heard...

SweetMind,

Correct, there are many books that have "theories" about differing things including D/deaf. However, because words are in a book does not mean that the words are true, accurate, believeable, etc ...

Telling a group of people that another has a 'disability' seems to separate the person in a negative way. This separates the person from the group and gives a negative view of the person and of the so-called "disability". The other students may figure out what is distinct about the person and not see this in a negative way. They may see that the other student is deaf and take pro-active steps in contrast with reactive steps. For example, the other students may realize that a specific student is deaf and meet with him/her in an envoronment that is visually helpful. Thus, the so-called 'disability' is seen as a distinct factor and one that can be adapted to through the use of both behavior and environmental modifacation. This adaptation is by both the D/deaf student and by others.

If the intern teacher cannot figure it out on their own - considering the education they have recieved - then it is not that big a deal! Duh!

Also, I would hope that the intern teacher would realize that each student is unique with talents and that everyone is better off if those talents are nurtured. IOW, if they see that the student is D/deaf in a positive frame-of-reference then everyone wins. If the D/deaf student has to defend what and who who they are and overcome all kinds of negativity then they will not be educated.



In this case, the emphasis is not on education but on negative conformity. Both the negativity and the conformity are interfering with the education.



The expression of true feelings as you have it is personal and does a lot for both the person expressing their true feelings as well as the person recieving the message. With the knowing of the person's true feelings much can be done to use the person's talents.



That may be true in many instances. When a deafie has to defend who they are and the choices they have mde, then it becomes an issue of beng welcome or not.

Many, many in society expect deafies to be passive. When a deafie does something that is not passive many in society are blown away. However, if a hearie does these things no one is suprised. Is this a double-standard? Is this prejudice?

Deaf children have a right to mental health as they are! Trying to change a D/deaf child into what they are not will not result in mental health and is an insult. A D/deaf child's mental health is fragile like that of any other child. Both D/deaf children and H/hearing children have a right to be themselves. Therefore, a D/deaf child has as much right to be who they are as does any other child. Is one more important than the other? Nope! Every child has a right to be themselves and not feel threatened by society.

Tragic. NOTHING has changed! What is mainstreaming actually but IGNROING the needs of those who can not HEAR. Many hearing people think if you just LISTEN harder? Uh what? A few years ago, in this forum I mentioned teachers and doctors learing some baskic ASL. I was shocked by Deaf persons saying WHY SHOULD THEY HAVE TO DO THAT? Because people who can't hear NEED Them to. And basic ASL/basic body language is not rocket science. It's natural. Deaf people who say ASL is their own private langague and having hearies learn it violates their Daef Identity need see there is only one Identity. Human. And Humans use languages to communicate. Period.
Everybody needs to get over 20th Century ignoramous attitudes that only promote discrimination. And no chagne.

trul
Yes the

Abbie,

I can tell you've faced issues not only of your positive identity but of how others see it in a negative manner. Some people obviously do not understand "D"eaf or "d"eaf.

Yes! Teachers and doctors need to be able to communicate with D/deaf persons in a natural way. Especially doctors who if they fail to understand what the patient is communicating may endanger that person's life. Fortunately tho, many doctors do sign. That gives them the ability to communicate with hearing and deaf patients.

That is a good point about signing not being the language exclusive to deafies. Signing is a natural way of communicating and many times people cannot communicate in words what they wish. Signing is a reasonable alternative in this case. The important point is that communication occurs!

20th century attitudes (and some older and less valid than that) are still are around and are used to justify harmful actions. Hopefully, in this 21st century people will raise their consciousness to a new level.